Yup. 3 AEB Sucks and I’m reminded about this fact because I just got my Canon 5D mark II last week.
The Canon 5D mark II is crippled with only 3AEB (I love the camera, but hate the 3AEB). I’m pushing 13,000 commercially produced HDRs as I type this and I have owned and shot with half a dozen Canon’s and a few Nikons. 3AEB just sucks (period). Sure you can twirl a dial to a custom function on say a xxD, 5D, 7D series body, but that means you get two separate exposure series that in post presents problems for certain softwares if you are looking to batch merge, etc. It just sucks.
I think a lot of people think I’m a canon hater. Let me clarify. I hate 3 AEB, not canon. The reason some think I hate canon is because I pick on them for holding back the extended AEB mode for only their $5000-$8000 cameras. Nikon has 9AEB on models as early as $1699 bodies.
Also, I pick on canon in a round about way on the wide end of their lens selection. The Canon 16-35mm f/2.8L II is a great lens. I love using it. In fact for close range portraits in tight spaces it is a gorgeous lens to use wide open because it is SO SOFT wide open as you move away from the center (oh I can see the hate mail in my inbox now, but this is true).
The Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8G goes wider, is far sharper wide open and deals with glare like a champ. Rumors have been floated about patents that canon is working on a Canon 14-24mm f/2.8L and if this turns out to be true then I am THRILLED! I will buy that lens no doubt because their latest and greatest offerings have been wicked sharp… so I’m sure if that new WA lens is real it will be a beauty.
Back to AEB though. 2010 looks to be the year that finally gives HDR shooters what they want and need. Extended options. Hell, it is just a feature. The camera already knows how to do all this it is simply a firmware issue. Look how fast Canon was able to “fix” the firmware for the 5D mark II when the outrage about no full manual control of video was cried from rooftops. There are less HDR shooters on that rooftop so our cries are not heard. But this year Nikon and Canon will hear a trumpet…
… because finally this year the limiting AEB range current DSLR models have will be completely shattered. 2009 we saw AEB limits of a camera extended dramatically by the Promote Control and 2010 will be the year that Canon and Nikon get their wake up call. In camera AEB will go so far beyond 9AEB that using the D3 or 1D mark III will seem limiting to the professional HDR shooter.
(to be continued)
{ 11 comments… read them below or add one }
Could you clarify what you mean by 3AEB and 9AEB? Do you mean that the camera needs to make more than three shots (normal, underexpose, overexpose) but instead a much larger number of shots through the exposure range?
AEB = Automatic Exposure Bracket
And 3 AEB is shorthand for three shots taken 1 under exposed, one middle exposure, one over exposed. Very high contrast scenes can be problematic for cameras that only have the ability to bracket 3 shots. You can of course do all this manually, but the AEB feature simplifies the process and also makes it so you don’t have to touch the camera while the sequence is taken. (Beneficial for dozens of reasons). 3 AEB is often insufficient for real estate photography or architectural photography if you have to shoot in sunny daylight conditions.
9 AEB allows you to take larger brackets that capture a wider dynamic range. It also allows you to tighten up the EV steps from say 2EV per shot to 1EV per shot and this is beneficial for both reducing noise and taming saturation issues in post.
I know that when all of us in the Canon video community were making noise about the manual control for video, there apparently was a firmware mod on its way from a few different people in the community. I think people would have taken the risk at the non-Canon firmware for the features they wanted. Canon just happened to get the update out in time. Maybe someone will make a mod for the 3AB? What do you think?
TJ, can they? Yes. Just look how fast they changed the 5DM2 firmware when film/TV folks begged.
There has been an outcry for more than 3aeb for years, like 5-7 now and Canon won’t change their firmware. It amazes me they are so stubborn or don’t care. Regardless, items like the Promote Control exist to provide a solution that should be in camera anyway.
Hence why I switched to Nikon for the 9aeb in camera. In fact you can do 9aeb on the D200/D300/D300s which are what?… $1499 or less if bought used? That’s like a 7D price and you get bracketing that is amazingly useful.
3aeb sucks. Canon needs to get with the program.
Red will have a HDR Stills mode that blows both Nikon and Canon out of the water from what I’ve read. But most photographers won’t buy a Scarlet so that doesn’t really don anything, but maybe wake up both Nikon and Canon to allow custom AEB.
TJ, I forgot to mention that Canon realized how much money they could make by making those additional firmware tweaks to the 5DM2. With studios and production companies to buy multiple bodies per purchase, they saw the ROI. The money potential was there to boost sales significantly for the video modes.
The same is not true for AEB tweaks, so they just don’t enable the massive extended range that the 1D/1Ds bodies have in the custom function settings which allow 7aeb with very wide EV jumps between. The 1D/1Ds series is the widest you can bracket currently in the DSLR world, but $5K or $8K to get that bracketing.
Its cheaper to just buy a $299 promote control and a 5DM2 if you are into full frame and committed to Canon glass.
My personal gripe with Canon is that they treat the 5DM2 as a non pro body and give you crippled AEB with it. I really think they should at least give the 5DM2 or later models the same 7aeb custom function that the 1D/1Ds bodies have. That’s just me speaking.
For Nikon it is easier for wide bracketing in camera with the D200/D300/D300s giving you 9aeb for $1500 or less. Then at the top end of pricing you get that 9aeb too for the D2x/D3/D3s/D3x.
I wonder if Canon is intentionally not adding the functionality just because they’re afraid of canibalizing their 1D sales. I know for us, we definitely can’t justify $8K for what amounts to small benefits in the 1D series. If we had $8K in our equipment budget, we’d definitely be buying another 5D Mark II and a few more lenses.
It sounds like this battle goes to Nikon hands down.
What do you think of the venerable Nikon D200 in term of doing HDR? I have two of them. They all have bad pixel over the past 4 years. Thanks goodness to RAW, the Adobe raw format remove it automatically. Since AEB take 9 frames on the D200, I don’t really need to have the latest and greatest CMOS found on the D700 or greater right? 99% of the shoot I do is at 100 ISO, locked onto tripod, shooting at f/8-11 on Nikon 12-24mm DX lens. I found the image to be quite impressive for the price. In other words, if I use a D700 and use 9 AEB, does it all make a huge different in quality? I don’t have the 2 cams to test. But my thesis is not a huge discernable difference because of the AEB.
For the sake of economic reasons, the D200 can be purchased for $500 vs. $1K – 2K for D300 of D700. D200 are my slave cams. I plan to have at least 3-4 of them shooting at all angles. I use the D200 primary for time lapse and found it to be quite good. I also have the 5DM2, but the 3 AEB really sucks like you say. I hate add-on controllers. Plus you have to purchase their TC-88N controller. It’s simply too much accessory for me. I prefer all in-cam and choose Nikon for time lapse (HDR and non-HDR) and Canon 5DM2 for regular 1080p video and non HDR stuff.
Sam, my response would need to be a thesis. And it would only be possible if I knew exactly how the finals are being delivered. The D200 is a very capable camera as are many digital cameras from the last 5 years. The older cameras don’t show significant flaws until you start going into higher ISOs.
One thing that a D700 gives is cleaner shadow data (across all ISOs) given it is full frame and a newer sensor. This does matter and does have an impact depending on what software you are using depending on how aggressive the tonemapping is… because ultimately some of the under exposed frames that were taken to get the highlight data (and which has noisy shadows even at 100 ISO) will be averaged into the mix while toning. So the cleaner shadow data of a full frame sensor like D700 or D3 does surpass a D200 and even a newer D300 can’t match the quality of the full frame cousins (it’s just physics of a full frame vs. crop sensor).
However, a jump to a D700 means you’d need to upgrade your glass to full frame to use the full sensor otherwise your crop sensor glass (DX) would only use a piece of the D700 sensor in DX mode and defeats the purpose of jumping up to it versus just sticking with the D200.
Come to think of it, I have three Canon 5DM2 bodies all being utilized for 1080p video. Invested heavily into high quality L-series lens (24/1.4, 16-35/2.8, 15/2.8 fisheye) and so on.. It’s kind of wasteful to not take advantage of the 21 Mp stills section of the camera. I’m addicted to 9 AEBs+ found on Nikon D### series and looks like the Promote controller is an indispensable tool on the Canons. Probably 12-15 AEB is good enough for national parks or any high contrast nature scenes.
If the D700 is a full frame workhorse cam, I’m thinking that the Canon 5DM2 should has the equivalent quality (cleaner shadow data) vs their 7D or APS-C sensor. The question that still puzzles me is that will the Promote Controller let you do both time lapse and AEB simultaneously? I hate having to carry two controllers (Canon’s TC-80N3 intervalometer & Promote ctrl) on remote location just for this. It appears that I there is only 1 input for the shutter on the 5DM2 body, curtailing the possibility of having two controllers to the 5DM2. If Promote allows both, I’ll order it very shortly.
I’m currently use the HDR Expose as the primary software for HDR still & time lapse. It’s fairly fast on the latest 64-bit Mac platform.
My two D200s are being used as “heavily abused slave” cams where I can leave the camera at remote locations (i.e. national parks) and not to be worrying about being stolen or foul weather as with the premium full frame bodies.
I’d love to be able to shoot with at least 4-5 different views simultaneously for HDR time lapse. This makes the trip worthwhile.
The Promote Control has always had Timelapse in addition to HDR (separate modes), but a recent firmware allows you to combine them whenever. I’ve used it to shoot HDR Timelapse with my Canon 60D. Would work on your 5DM2 bodies as well.
You have a TON of gear. You would definitely be nailing every view if you had that many running simultaneously!
My Canon 5dii (f/8, Av) only allows 3 brackets of exposure in AEB. The camera is set for only 3 brackets of exposure (-2,0,+2) and I can expand that by setting my customer user dials (C2 and C3) to incorporate (-3 -2 -1) and (+1 +2 +3)… the problem that I’m having is that my shutter restricts to a maximum of 30sec. and usually ends up at the 30 second mark during night time photos.
When I take the all of the brackets, -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3 (I’ve deleted the overlapping/repetitive -2 and +2), Photomatix recognizes my exposures to consistently end up in odd bracketed exposures such as -8 -8 -2 0 +2 +3 +3. As you can see the central/1st bracket set 3 exposures are -2 0 and +2 which works just fine in photomatix… so my shutter must be using the “maximum duration” for the highest and lowest exposures giving me -8, -8, +3, +3.
Has anyone else had this issue and does anyone know of a work around or fix?
If I’m taking the wrong approach, please let me know.
Scott Kublin (sp?) suggested that I up my ISO…which is fine, but causes far more noise.. and when my results work correctly the long exposures are very nice. He said 30secs is never needed.. however, Trey said that he “sometimes leaves his shutter open for very long times”… I assume from his Nikon D3x that this could be up to 1-2 minutes.
Overall, my goal is to maintain low ISO and not get duplicate brackets.
Notes:
The custom setting will not allow you to AEB in the range of -3 0 +3 because the bracket is restricted to a +2 and -2 range (i.e -2,0,+2/-3,1,+1/ 0, 2, 4)